1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Welcome to the trueCall Community Forum - The official discussion forum for trueCall users.

    You are currently browsing as a guest. You are invited to register with the trueCall Community Forum and join this growing community of trueCall users. Registration only takes a minute and has benefits such as the ability to post messages, private messaging and more.

Telepests From Local Area

Discussion in 'Telepests' started by boswell, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. boswell

    boswell Member

    trueCall Model:
    trueCall Classic
    Country:
    UK
    On the question of pest calls I note the increase of "local" numbers being used in an apparent con to make you think it could be a relevant number. I see my own area code being used more frequently and others areas close by. It's amazing what these Pests will try. Fortunately trueCall's options stop all of them, but the control panel listing makes interesting reading! Now I am a total trueCall convert and simply ignore them (though I actually add them to my Zap list) but when my wife sees them as being blocked or "pressed wrong code" and disconnected, she worries that she may have missed a call from someone local. I am training her to be harder, but it takes time!!!
     
  2. Top Cat

    Top Cat Administrator Staff Member

    trueCall Model:
    trueCall Classic + Extra + Recorder
    Country:
    Englishman in Wales!
    I have not noticed such so far. The only ones I receive from my wild-card area codes are the likes of local double glazing contractors, and they get zapped.
     
  3. toekneem

    toekneem Member

    trueCall Model:
    trueCall Call Blocker + Recorder
    Country:
    Essex, land of sunshine , drought and conservative policies

    Aahh , but wait till you see your own number being spoofed. Not seen it myself but more and more people are reporting it happening. Then we can report our own number to the TPS.:D
     
  4. Top Cat

    Top Cat Administrator Staff Member

    trueCall Model:
    trueCall Classic + Extra + Recorder
    Country:
    Englishman in Wales!
    How do they doooo that? (IIRC this sort of thing has come up before)
     
  5. Buzby

    Buzby Member

    trueCall Model:
    trueCall Classic + Recorder
    Very easy - there are two numbers in the digital data stream used for call set up (C7 signalling). The first is the physical line number, the second is CLIP (Calling Line Identity Presentation). When present, this overrides the CLI number.

    The problem is anyone with an ISDN 30 connection and digital switch can inject anything they like into the CLIP field - or even keep it blank or fill it with 1111111111 or whatever.

    If you have a similar connection, you get both numbers - but if you have only a standard line, you get CLI only if there is no CLIP data. If there is, you get the number the caller wants you to see.

    A good example of this is banks, who if calling you will present an 0845 etc number. This does not relate to any physical line (the 'real number') and some are clever enough to to allow direct call backs be sending - say 0845 123xxx then adding the extension calling you (say 456) to the stream so you see a full number you can call back on.

    Of course, it can be programmed in any way - so fake numbers are no problem.
     
    David likes this.
  6. Top Cat

    Top Cat Administrator Staff Member

    trueCall Model:
    trueCall Classic + Extra + Recorder
    Country:
    Englishman in Wales!
    That's a bugger isn't it. I'm surprised there are not units on the market which allow the user to decide which field to display.

    I wonder which field the trueCall responds to? News may well be forthcoming.
     
  7. Buzby

    Buzby Member

    trueCall Model:
    trueCall Classic + Recorder
    As I mentioned in para 2, there is nothing to display if you do not have an ISDN30 (or genuine fibre) connection. The PSTN will default to CLIP as the primary display and only if this is blank will the line number be shown.

    I recall OFCOM stipulated that telcos had to ensure a mechanism existed that would not allow what you suggested. Indeed, many believe that calling with 141 prevents your number being displayed. It doesn't. The telco knows the number as it has to bill you - and if (say) calling Sky, they are given your number but told whether you wish if displayed or not.

    Anyone you call with a C7 comms link captures all your data regardless - it is only 'secure' on PSTN to PSTN calls, less so on calls to firms with full connectivity.
     
  8. HAL9000

    HAL9000 Member

    trueCall Model:
    trueCall Call Blocker + Recorder
    Country:
    Continental Europe
    Is it from the technical point of view possible to determine the caller's identity if he uses Caller-ID spoofing over VoIP?
     
  9. Buzby

    Buzby Member

    trueCall Model:
    trueCall Classic + Recorder
    Unfortunately not - what you would get using an ISDN line would be the two numbers, the first providing the actual line number used by the VOIP provider as their gateway to the PSTN. This could be local to them, or be geographically linked to whAtever supplier was being used to deliver the PSTN element of the call - along with the CLIP the users 'presentation' number allocated by the VOIP provider from their allocation. If dialled, this would route to an aggregation point and then forwarded to the VOIP service provider.

    The humble PSTN user will only get the CLIP and nothing more, and as these numbers are geographically insignificant, can terminate anywhere.
     
  10. HAL9000

    HAL9000 Member

    trueCall Model:
    trueCall Call Blocker + Recorder
    Country:
    Continental Europe
    What about BT & co.? Can they determine the true identity?
     
  11. Top Cat

    Top Cat Administrator Staff Member

    trueCall Model:
    trueCall Classic + Extra + Recorder
    Country:
    Englishman in Wales!
    Of course. If you receive the trunk data you get the originating line info.
     
  12. HAL9000

    HAL9000 Member

    trueCall Model:
    trueCall Call Blocker + Recorder
    Country:
    Continental Europe
    Then my Telephone provider of my country is accountable by tolerating Caller-ID spoofing, which is AFAIK illegal.
     
  13. Buzby

    Buzby Member

    trueCall Model:
    trueCall Classic + Recorder
    What do you mean by 'true identity'? There are 3 different processes in use: PSTN, Digital (ISDN & VOIP). If BT are not involved in the origination or delivery of the call, then they are in receipt of no data.

    PSTN is virtually impossible to spoof, as the creation of a CLIP is under the control of the originating telco. It used to be a request able service (at no charge) and no checks were made that the number you wanted to display was actually yours - I managed to get BT to display my 070 BT 'personal' number until they ceased the service.

    For Digital - the C7 stream contains the CLI and CLIP, the latter only being shown at the call recipient. As for the first number being 'true' - if by that you mean can it identify the caller, the answer is no. When line aggregation or VOIP is in use, is is like a reusable IP address, given the date and time you could link it to the originator, but the work involved in doing this would be time consuming and expensive.

    Since CLIP effectively IS 'spoofing', how is this illegal? As the telco does not control CLIP (except on PSTN) you cannot hold them liable for misuse by third parties.
     
    Top Cat likes this.
  14. HAL9000

    HAL9000 Member

    trueCall Model:
    trueCall Call Blocker + Recorder
    Country:
    Continental Europe
    I'm talking about Caller ID Spoofing as it is defined in Wikipedia:

    "Caller ID spoofing is the practice of causing the telephone network to display a number on the recipient's Caller ID display that is not that of the actual originating station. The term is commonly used to describe situations in which the motivation is considered malicious by the speaker or writer."
    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caller_ID_spoofing

    In some countries it's illegal to spoof a caller ID if the intention is to mislead the caller.
    In my humble opinion, if a Telecom company knows that a notorious scammer uses Caller ID Spoofing and tolerates the use of its systems, then I wouldn't be surprised that they could be made responsible of allowing this.
    I'm also aware that there are legitimate reasons to spoof a Caller ID, but this is not what I was talking about.

    Is there a Lawyer in this forum?
     
  15. Buzby

    Buzby Member

    trueCall Model:
    trueCall Classic + Recorder
    As to your first paragraph - Wikipaedia is crowd-sourced. It most certainly is not definitive, and if I could be bothered I would change it to reflect its inaccuracy. The second sentence is correct in that the term is 'generally used' to describe misleading or incorrect data, but the first?

    Any call received from a 'virtual' line - this includes 0800, 0500 and any of a myriad of dialling codes reflect what the calling equipment injects into the data stream, it is NOT the 'number of the actual originating station' so therefore it is spoofed - only the originating line number is factual, but then it may not be possible to call the person who called you on it, which was why CLIP was developed.
     
  16. HAL9000

    HAL9000 Member

    trueCall Model:
    trueCall Call Blocker + Recorder
    Country:
    Continental Europe
    Would your definition be definitive? ;)

    Sorry, seriously. I think that it is now well known that Wikipedia is not the Encyclopaedia Britannica.
    The article just verbalized much better what I meant.
     
  17. Buzby

    Buzby Member

    trueCall Model:
    trueCall Classic + Recorder
    Shame that it misleads so many by not explaining CLIP exists and why it is needed. If we were talking about the manipulation of CLI then modifying this would be fraud, but as this cannot be done, as the telcos use it for billing and revenue generation!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  18. Top Cat

    Top Cat Administrator Staff Member

    trueCall Model:
    trueCall Classic + Extra + Recorder
    Country:
    Englishman in Wales!
    I shall add CLIP, ISDN etc to the Jargon Buster (this is my memo pad).
     
  19. Buzby

    Buzby Member

    trueCall Model:
    trueCall Classic + Recorder
    :)



    - Raymond
     
  20. boswell

    boswell Member

    trueCall Model:
    trueCall Classic
    Country:
    UK
    Goooood! I was slightly confused at the start of this thread - but now am taking tablets! :crazy:
     

Share This Page